Early U.S. proto-metal masters reissue their two cult classic LPs
By Peter Lindblad
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| Dust - Dust & Hard Attack 2013 |
Dust knew they were on to something. Their record label and
management, though, were clueless as to how to market
it. And that, more than anything, kept Dust off the music industry radar and
ultimately led to their untimely demise.
Three high school friends from Brooklyn, Richie Wise, Kenny
Aaronson and Marc Bell – with production and songwriting assistance from Kenny Kerner – formed Dust in the late ‘60s. As young as they were,
they had a strong sense of who they were. They played heavy metal, though
nobody was really calling it that back then. It was blustery hard rock that was steeped
in the blues, with occasional forays into European progressive-rock and folk, and songs like “Stone Woman” and the heavy, mind-melting psychedelic excursion “From a Dry Camel” were as innovative as anything coming out of the U.K. And they knew hardly anybody else in America was doing anything like it.
Signed to New York City’s Kama Sutra/Buddha label in 1970,
Dust recorded two albums – the self-titled Dust
in ’71 and Hard Attack in ’72 – and
toured with some of the ‘70s biggest hard-rock acts, including Alice Cooper.
And then, realizing that perhaps they weren’t being properly handled and that they
were destined for obscurity if they stayed together, they split up. Everyone
went their separate ways and went on to bigger and better things.
Wise and Kerner served as producers for the first two KISS
albums and Aaronson played bass for such rock ‘n’ roll heavyweights as Joan Jett,
Bob Dylan and Sammy Hagar – this after playing with Stories on their No. 1 hit “Brother
Louie,” a cover of the Hot Chocolate song. And then there’s the story of Marc Bell,
known better as
Marky Ramone.
As Dust was in its death throes, Bell started hanging out at
Max’s Kansas City, where he met the transvestite punk force of nature Wayne County.
Joining forces, they created Wayne County and the Backstreet Boys, but after a
year and a half of gigging around New York City and not getting anywhere, they
called it a day. Bell then made the acquaintance of one Richard Hell, who,
along with guitarist Robert Quine and Ivan Julian, put together Richard Hell
& the Voidoids. With Bell’s work on drums, the Voidoids recorded one of the
finest punk records in history, 1977’s Blank
Generation on Sire Records, and they later toured with The Clash.
But it was with The Ramones that Bell, rechristened Marky
Ramone, made a name for himself. He was onboard for The Ramones’ Road to Ruin album, which featured the
classic “I Wanna Be Sedated.” In all, he spent 15 years with The Ramones,
surviving the Phil Spector sessions for End
of the Century and appearing in the Roger Corman cult classic film “Rock ‘n’
Roll High School.”
On the occasion of
Sony/Legacy’s reissue of
Dust and
Hard Attack on one CD, or the vinyl version released exclusively
for Record Store Day on April 20, it’s Dust that’s on Marky’s mind. In this
interview, Marky Ramone talks about his days with Dust, the reissues and how he
broke into punk. Technical problems sabotaged our conversation somewhat, but
most of it was preserved. So, here’s Marky.
Why put this reissue
out now?
Marky Ramone: Well,
we were able to. The contract was finally up with the other record company that
really didn’t do it justice. So, Sony/Legacy, we remastered it, packaged it in numbered
vinyl, collectible vinyl, and the packaging is unbelievable, and when you hear
the remastering, it sounds twice as big as the original recording. So we were
very happy to put it out again to show the public what we were doing 40 years
ago in America, which was heavy metal, ‘cause at the time there was hardly any
metal in America in 1970. It was all coming from England. And also in America,
there weren’t that many producers who knew how to produce this genre of music.
So, now it has a second chance.
So you view Dust as
being pioneers in American heavy metal?
MR: Well, one of
the few, yes. Black Sabbath in England solidified it there, and then when we
started in ’70, we got our record deal in ’70 and recorded the album and it
came out in ’71. So we were kind of ahead of the game in America, along with a
few other handful of bands. There weren’t that many, and the term “heavy metal”
wasn’t even a phrase yet.
Listening to these
albums now, and like you said, with the remastering it sounds bigger, but going
back to them now, what are your impressions? The songs are really well-written.
MR: Well, we were
highly skilled, honed, musicians for our age. And we really took our music
seriously at our age. I had to worry about getting a diploma on the wall for high
school for the parents. It was either that or you’re not going to play, so I
kept my grades up in summer school and night school, and eventually got my
diploma from Erasmus High School in Brooklyn. And I was able to continue
playing. The parents were happy with my grades, and that’s how everything came
about. We were free and happy to get out of there and play.
You touched on this
already, but you were 16 or 17 years old when you played with Dust, and you
were all just teenagers. Did you all go to the same high school and is that how
you came together?
MR: Um, Erasmus
High School on Flatbush Avenue in Brooklyn, and we all hung out in the same
places in Brooklyn. And mainly, we didn’t go to school. We’d just go to my
house and rehearse in the basement and throw ideas around. And that’s how me,
Kenny and Richie did it. So those two albums are the result.
Did you keep in touch
with those guys after Dust ended?
MR: Not at all.
We all went in separate directions, and in late ’72, Richie and Kenny Kerner
ended up producing the first two KISS albums. Kenny Aaronson played on “Brother
Louie” from Stories, which was No. 1 for two weeks that year. And I ended up
working with Andrew Loog Oldham, the Rolling Stones producer on an album. So
the legacy of the group is pretty interesting. And the rest is history.
In the years between
the formation of Dust and that first album, what was the music scene like in
New York City and what was Dust doing differently from the rest of the pack?
MR: Well, at the
time, when Dust was together, radio was starting to play soft rock. I think it
was called “folk rock,” which is fine. It was easy listening. And I think at
the end of the ‘60s, a lot of the music was becoming tamer. People were getting
older … you know, the Woodstock era and all that stuff. So, you had soft rock,
but we didn’t like soft rock. We liked heavy, loud rock. So that’s why we did
form Dust, for that reason. But things that were happening in Brooklyn and New
York … basically you had the older bands still playing that were around in the
mid ‘60s and the late ‘60s. And then a whole new thing started, which was glam
rock, in New York City, with the advent of the New York Dolls and Wayne County
and, obviously, bands like KISS and stuff like that. But we didn’t want to be
part of any scene. We wanted to travel the world. We were way ahead of these
people musician-wise, or technically. So that’s what was happening at the time,
and everything is relative to time. And then the punk scene started a few years
later after the glam scene started and that’s when I started hanging out at
CBGBs.
It seems like there’s
a European or almost a progressive sound to the band, but it’s still really
bluesy hard rock. Where did that combination of sounds come from? Were those
your influences at the time?
MR: Oh, okay.
Well, we really loved Jimi Hendrix, we loved Cream, we liked The Who, the
Stones, The Beatles … we liked a lot of the blues players, and then with Dust,
that’s what you have. You have an omelet and it’s called Dust, and we just
stirred up the pot, the eggs, and the next thing you know our influences came
through and the only thing we put on top of it was the icing on the cake.
What do you remember
about signing with Kamu Sutra? Did you know much about the label beforehand?
MR: Well … yeah I
did. When I knew about the bands that they were signing up to the label … [The
Lemon Pipers’] “Green Tambourine” … what’s the other one? “Yummy, yummy,
yummy/I’ve got love in my tummy.” It was a bubblegum-rock record company. They
had other great bands. They had the Lovin’ Spoonful. So at the time that’s what
they were pushing, because that’s what was making them money. Did they have the
experience to handle Dust? I don’t think so. I think our manager was a little
inexperienced at the time with this genre of music, and I think that if we had
waited it out for a third album on a different label, something like this label
here, who knew how to handle bands like that, maybe the third album would have
pushed us over the top.
Compared to other
studio sessions you would later have, how did the writing and recording process
of that first album go?
MR: Well, we had
never entered a studio before in our lives. We had no experience producing. We
knew our songs very well. We were very well rehearsed. So basically, those
songs are two or three takes. I used the in-house drum set, because I couldn’t
afford a drum set at the time. Here we are just piecing things together that I
got used or … whatever. And then we went for it. We had an engineer that was
very skilled and suggested some things, and of course, we listened. And that’s
how the first album came about.
How long did it take
to make it?
MR: About three
weeks … yeah, about three weeks.
How much money did
you have to make it?
MR: Oh, well, the
advances were pretty good back then. They were, and things weren’t as expensive
as they are now, with hourly or weekly rates. So our advances were good. We
were able to buy all-new equipment, PA, amps, drum set … the whole thing. But
again, there weren’t that many producers in America that knew how to produce
this kind of music. We were still in a quagmire about which way to go – to get
an English producer that might’ve produced an English heavy metal band, to wait
and go with another record label that was bigger and have them suggest
somebody. But we didn’t do that. We just decided to go our own way, we parted
as friends and that was it.
Who produced that
first record, or was it yourselves?
MR: No, it was
us.
That’s what I
thought. I just wanted to make sure. What were your expectations for that first
album? Did you feel it had commercial potential?
MR: Well, in the
metal genre, yes. It wasn’t marketed that well, and it wasn’t the answer to
their prayers for them, because they had other musical genres that they could
immediately make money off of. Everything has a budget, so we were kind of
pushed, but not really. We were pushed better than some bands, but not as well
as others.
How did you come to
be signed by Kama Sutra, since they weren’t into that type of music?
MR: Neil Bogart
bought up all these labels, and he was interested. And we gave him the demo, he
liked it and he signed us to Kama Sutra. We were close to getting signed to
Atlantic, through a guy named Adrian Barber, but that didn’t happen. So we
decided we’d better do something here, and we decided to go with Kama Sutra.
What was happening
within the band during the time between the making of the first record and the
follow-up, Hard Attack? Was there a
lot of touring?
MR: A lot of
rehearsing. We toured with Alice Cooper, Wishbone Ash, Uriah Heep, John Mayall
… we played a lot of those … there were a lot of good night clubs, but we
realized also that what we were playing was a different genre, so there weren’t
that many bands around like us at the time. So when we did tour, we had to be
placed with bands who did our kind of music. So that’s where the inexperience
of the manager came in. So, like I said, if we had a better manager and a
better label, I think that would have all gotten us further.
Was the music
well-received by the crowds you did play for?
MR: Oh yeah.
Yeah, I can’t say enough about that. We were so thrilled at how they received
us.
I read where your
best memories of Dust had to do with the band’s tour with Alice Cooper. What
was the high point of that tour?
MR: Well, the
fact that the people gave us two encores, and then came initiation. I go to my
hotel room … I mean, this is stuff that teenagers do I guess, but we were
teenagers. Somebody took a dump in one of my drawers in the hotel room. And I
knew something smelled pretty strange. I opened it up and there it was, and I
never knew who did it, but I look back at it now, and I thought it was pretty
funny. Would I do it? No, I wouldn’t do it, but somebody did do it, and whoever
it is, I wish I could find them.
So you never found
out who did it?
MR: No, I didn’t.
Maybe these reissues will make that person come forward (laughs).
As far as playing
shows, was there a particular one that was the high point of that tour?
MR: Cobo Hall. I
mean that place was packed. And also St. Louis, in particular, really took a
liking to Dust. And I think that if we continued to play to the Midwest, and
we’d spread out to the East and West, but again, we just stopped that quick.
It wasn’t that long
between the two records, but was there a difference between the recording of
the second one, as opposed to the first?
MR: We were more
experienced. We bought our new equipment with our big advance … but that’s just
my opinion. A lot of fans of mine who come up to me with the older Dust, and
the second one was a little more technical.
Why did the band
eventually break up?
MR: Because we
realized at this point that the sales from the second album were only a little
better than the first …
What was your
favorite song from each album?
MR: Yeah, I do.
From the first album, titled just Dust,
it’s “From a Dry Camel.” It’s nine minutes long … and then “Pull Away,” I love
the way the drums came through in that song, and the chord changes were really
nice. It’s a metal love song.
When did it hit you
that Dust was becoming a cult favorite?
MR: When kids
would come up to me when I was on tour with The Ramones. Even now … even now
they’ll come up to me with the Dust
album, and then I sign them – not Marky Ramone, but Marc Bell. That’s who I was
known as with Dust, before I became a Ramone, and it was amazing that these
kids had these albums and they’d kept them immaculate. So that’s when I knew
the band had something, some longevity.
While Dust was in the
process of ending, you starting hanging out at Max’s Kansas City. What
attracted you to that environment?
MR: Well, after I
did the album with Andrew Loog Oldham, because I do live in New York, it was
the place to go if you’d like to go and meet other musicians.
What do you recall
about meeting Wayne County for the first time?
MR: Oh, he was
great. He came up to me and asked me if I would come down to hear his band
play, and I did. I liked it, because I always admired the fact that he was
ahead of his time, and he was a great entertainer. And, you know, I could go on
and on and on about that, but that’ll be in my book. He had a great Southern
drawl, which really … and that’s how it started and I stayed with Wayne for
about a year and a half, and they’d play at Max’s. And then Tommy didn’t want
to play in The Ramones anymore, after three and a half years, and they asked me
to join the group and the first song we did was “I Wanna Be Sedated.”
It was, huh?
MR: Yeah.
The idea of joining
Richard Hell and the Voidoids … what made the idea band so appealing [he played
on the band’s first album, Blank
Generation]?
MR: Well, Richard
was aligned with Television, and then he formed The Heartbreakers with one of
the New York Dolls. And then there was a little competition there, and he left
to form his own group. It was a good combination of people. Bob Quine was an
exceptional and unique guitar player. Richard, I think, was from Mississippi or
Missouri … one of those states. And he added a different flavor to the group,
and he was a great writer. And we had Ivan [Julian] and myself, so it was an
unusual combination, which really reflected on that Blank Generation album, and that’s why it was rated as one of the
best punk albums of all time.
How did the
conversation go when Dee Dee asked you to join The Ramones? And what was it
about them that made you want to be a part of it?
MR: It was at the
bar at CBGBs, and I knew him before I joined The Ramones. And he said Tommy was
leaving the band and would I like to join, and I said, “Of course.” Richard
didn’t want to tour anymore. And it started there; I had to audition, but I
knew I had it. I did “Rockaway Beach,” “Sheena Is a Punk Rocker” and “I Don’t
Care,” and I went back to the bar and that was it.
What was different
about being in The Ramones as to Dust?
MR: Well, being
in The Ramones was 4/4/2, 2/4 time. Dust was a lot more sophisticated
musically. I was really able to let loose a lot with the drum fills, and the
accents, and the time changes. The Ramones was just basically straight-ahead 4/4,
so that was the difference.
What do you think
kids today experiencing Dust for the first time will think of these recordings?
MR: Oh, they’re
going to love it. I’ll tell you if they don’t like it, I don’t know what
they’ll like. I mean, when I heard it back, I couldn’t believe it. I was amazed
at how big it sounds.
